Industry 4.0: Going Paperless In Order To Increase Connectivity and Automation with Jake Hall, The Manufacturing Millennial

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Jake Hall (00:00):
You know, I I'll say industry 4.0, for example, people think industry 4.0 is just this list of new technologies that can enable the workforce. If it's augmented reality, if it's digital instructions, if it's collaborative robotics, if it's it and OT working together more on, you know, communication technology, there's technologies out there. But I think what we view it more as a digital transformation, it's a culture change within a manufacturing company. That's going to be more focused on the worker, through its production.

Luke West (00:36):
Welcome to the digitization Mavericks podcast. Here we take a closer look at digital transformation and automation and manufacturing with the stakeholders who are working hard to make it happen. Our host Chris Krnezich interviews, industry leaders, to discuss the challenges that persist across the front line and how organizations are using new technology to improve efficiency for common workflows like abnormality reporting. Bsos five S inspection scheduling and more, the status quo is no longer acceptable in manufacturing. So this is a podcast for the digitization Mavericks, the employees who care deeply about their company and wanna elevate the quality of their work environment.

Chris Krnezich (01:14):
Welcome to another episode. It's Chris here and today I'm joined by Jake Hall, the manufacturing millennial. Thanks for taking some time to join us on this episode of digitization Maverick. So early on in our show history, Jake, I've been following you for a while, so this is gonna be a lot of fun, been a big fan personally. So I'm stoked to be meeting you here.

Jake Hall (01:35):
Awesome. Hey Chris, it's great to be here. Looking forward to the conversation.

Chris Krnezich (01:39):
Great. Well, let's get started before we do that. Let's wind it back for a second. Just so some of our listeners out there can get to know you a little better in case they already don't. What brought you to manufacturing in the first place and how have you found your way into this current role as an industry influencer known as the manufacturing millennial?

Jake Hall (01:59):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, manufacturing for me goes back to an early childhood. I think when I got my first Lego set, you know, if you're watching this and you look behind me, you're gonna see a bunch of Lego sets in my wall, still on my, my home office. And I use that just kind of as an inspiration of how do we get here today? How do we get young people involved in the industry? And for me, I chose that career path of being a Lego league to then doing first robotics in high school, to going to college and getting a manufacturing engineering degree. And then spending the last 10 years in the robotics and automation space, the manufacturing millennial brand, as, as I like to call of just me becoming more of an industry influencer, an advocate to this industry started a couple years ago where I was at a automation conference.

Jake Hall (02:45):
We've all been to an automation or manufacturing conference. And I was sitting in a room of about 400 people. This was fall of 2019 to put a timeline on it. And I was probably Chris, the only person in that audience under the age of 40 in attendance and I'm 32. And I said, you know what? This is, this is ridiculous. We need to have a better representation of millennials in our industry and not just millennials, gen Zs, as they're entering the workforce now. And from then on, I, I said, you know what, I'm gonna be the manufacturing millennial. I'm a millennial, I'm passionate about manufacturing. And from then the, the, the tag name kind of stuck and the brand has grown over time. So what, where I'm at now is over the last two years, when the pandemic kind of ha I said, you know what, I'm gonna start posting more on social media because that's where the audience is gonna be.

Jake Hall (03:37):
Everyone's working from home now, everyone's doing more stuff online. They're getting more information digitally than in person. I'm gonna start sharing content online. And my brand that has grown from maybe a couple hundred connection requests on LinkedIn. I just back actually just today, I just passed 40,000 followers on LinkedIn with 25 million views on my content. And, you know, that's the digital side I love going in person and having keynote notes, but the whole idea for the manufacturer millennial, Chris is how do we better advocate our industry and manufacturing and automation to adapt new technology. That's gonna one make manufacturers better. We're gonna make them have a better justification and be more efficient. They're gonna embrace technology. That's gonna make them successful, but then we're gonna use the technology in a way that's gonna attract a future workforce. That will be their employees, because we all know right now, labor shortage is a massive issue we're facing in manufacturing.

Chris Krnezich (04:36):
Awesome. Well, congratulations on the milestone. Did you make up manufacturing, millennial? Did someone give you that idea? Where did that come from? I guess,

Jake Hall (04:43):
Yeah. I mean, that's a name I kind of just gave myself where I said, you know what? I'm a millennial what's a fun ring. And the manufacturing millennial is, is how things came from there.

Chris Krnezich (04:54):
Awesome. Well, it's super catchy and I've been following you for a long time. You post awesome videos every week. So I, I look forward to seeing this one up there as well. Just moving along though, how have you seen technology and the ability to digitize such technical workflows advance in the industry from when you started to where we are now?

Jake Hall (05:13):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that we're seeing change in is more people are wanting to see work act in a way of how they live. If, if I'm at home and I'm embracing my phone to answer the questions that I have on solving a problem, I'll give you an example, right? 10, 15 years ago, if you wanted to replace an alternator on a car, you picked up a Haynes book from AutoZone and you opened up the appendix to figure out how I'm gonna replace a component. Well, now if you want do it, you're gonna go on YouTube or you're gonna go on an app or you're gonna go on a device and they're gonna walk you through visually how to change that we learn a much better visually through video than we do just a couple black and white photos through a bunch of lines of description we need to embrace. And we're embracing that technology in a way that becomes a lot more familiar with newer generations. And I think that's the biggest thing we're changing in manufacturing is the technology might not necessarily be new, but to the manufacturing, adapting, this technology is new. And that's what we're seeing that change in.

Chris Krnezich (06:18):
Absolutely. So if a picture is worth a thousand words, what's a video worth,

Jake Hall (06:22):
Oh man, time and money. <Laugh> no kidding, but all serious though. I, I mean, a video is worth in a lot of cases, attraction to a workforce. If, if we can say, you're gonna be able to solve problems on your own, because we're going to enable you as a worker to be able to fix something. And you're gonna have more purpose in what you do for your job. That's creating more opportunity for everyone, for the manufacturer and for the worker. So that's, that's what a video and a, in a case lot is it's, it's it's technology in general, but enabling technology is enabling a worker.

Chris Krnezich (06:57):
Yeah, exactly. That's what we call a win, win, win, where the employees winning, cuz they get to see more the employers winning cuz they know what's done right. The first time everybody wins in that case. And everybody's good job becomes easier to do as well. So moving along here, how did you first get introduced to the idea of digital transformation, a term which has become so popular today as a result of paperless, SOPs automation, continuous improvement goals. You've got a similar background to me in the automation world. I'm getting I'm new to digitization, but I think you have a bit more experience here. So I want to hear it from you.

Jake Hall (07:30):
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean digital transformation, I, I would say is kind of like industry 4.0, a lot of people don't understand what it is. A lot of people just view it as a buzzword. You know, I I'll say industry 4.0 for example, people think industry 4.0 is just this list of new technologies that can enable the workforce. If it's augmented reality, if it's digital instructions, if it's collaborative robotics, if it's it and OT working together more on, you know, communication technology, there's technologies out there. But I think what we view it more as a digital transformation, it's a culture change within a manufacturing company. That's going to be more focused on the worker, through its production. And, and, and, and we're, we're focusing on the worker by leveraging digital solutions that are gonna enable them to be either a retract a worker in a way for a younger worker that wasn't being attracted to the industry before. Another option is getting access to information to make decisions or to address problems in a way that we were never able to make before. And, and I think that's what we're seeing with digital transformation is it's not a specific product. It's a culture change that we need to adapt from the management all the way down to the worker. That's gonna make solutions, you know, of what digital transformation is successful.

Chris Krnezich (08:58):
Yeah. That's awesome. I think you nailed it with that one. I, I, I personally saw industry 4.0 as a buzzer when I first started, this was a new thing, what like 10 years ago. And I'm like, we've been doing this for 20 years. This is a new, yeah,

Jake Hall (09:11):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I can't remember exactly when the term industry 4.0 was coined over in Germany, but I mean, it's, it's a topic that's been around for decades yet. Why have more companies not successfully integrated and become what I would view as a lighthouse to the industry? It's because the technology is there, but the way they enabled it, culturally was never done successfully. And I think that's where you're gonna see companies who are successfully leveraging technology versus not leveraging technology.

Chris Krnezich (09:41):
Exactly. So you touched a bit on making it easier for workers. What tips have you seen from industry on effectively implementing these new technology or automation that you can share with our audience? Based on experiences that you've had?

Jake Hall (09:56):
Yeah. That there's a couple things, right? When you look at an older generation, let's say, you know, a gen X or a boomer, a person who's been in the industry for 20 years. A lot of times they struggle with changing the process that they've done for years. And it's worked for them from a level when I look at how do we successfully change or how do we better leverage integrating new technology? You communicate it in a way where they're creating a cultural or what they're doing has a purpose behind it. If it's taking the knowledge that an older generation or an older person who's been there for 20 years, who's gained all this knowledge over time, communicate how we're leveraging technology in a way that's gonna enable their skills to teach a future. The, the, the future employees of the workforce. So the manufacturing industry is, is facing an issue where there's gonna be a lot of millennials.

Jake Hall (10:52):
Oh, excuse me. A lot of boomers and gen X is retiring in the next 15, 20 years. Well, it's not just the labor force. That's leaving. It's all the skills and knowledge that has been, you know, built for decades. That's gonna be leading with them. Well, how do you, how do you enable, how do you take that information and move it to the next generation? It's through technology, it's through the ability to record information from an experienced person and move it forward. So you leverage that ability to take their knowledge and pass it on as a, a positive change. But then as well, you look at for new generations, you say, Hey, we're giving you the tools to build out your own successful training program or your own successful way of you doing business. And we're, we're leveraging the solutions or technology. In this case, I'm holding up my cell phone as every person is connected to their cell phone daily. If it's through smart app, it's through social media, if it's where we get our information if it's how we communicate. But if we can leverage the technology that younger are familiar with in the same way that we do business, that change of how we're making decisions and manufacturing is gonna be a lot easier to implement.

Chris Krnezich (12:03):
Yeah. I think you nailed it. You've gotta speak to the newer generation in a way that they want to be spoken to and yeah. Their language,

Jake Hall (12:09):
You know, that's one of those things, right? The issue that we're facing in manufacturers is it's not hard to get a millennial to come and work for a manufacturer. It's hard to get a millennial to stay working in manufacturing. And I think a lot of the times as they go in there and they say, well, wait a second. They're using processes that are 20 years old. There's everything here is ancient. It's this dark, dirty doll, dangerous environment that my grandpa used to work in. That hasn't enabled any technology. That's less than 20 years old. You need to change the mindset of how you do business. That's gonna attract a future workforce. And I, I think that's how we, we do it is we, we, we allow technology to enable our future workers.

Chris Krnezich (12:56):
Exactly. So, so based on that, you, you're saying that you need to have somebody to champion this. Can you tell us which stakeholders based on title or function seem to advocate for the benefits behind this more than others?

Jake Hall (13:09):
You know, I, I can't say there's a specific title. What I can say from an example, though, that I've seen is I've seen HR get a lot more involved with ROI, justifications of new technology than I ever have before, because technology is more enabling a workforce and a worker than it is just a machine. So if you're able to get from a culture perspective, from a workforce perspective to say, Hey, how many hours are we doing training every week? How many hours do we have? Are we losing every year? Because we have to train a person on the same job over and over and over again. Because they keep leaving. You know, that's a justification right there of how do we better enable technology and a reason behind it is because it's a people problem. And a lot, a lot of times, it's not a, it's not a product problem, it's a people problem. So I mean, that's an area that I've seen successfully. And as workforce has now become the tighten of discussion in the manufacturing industry, it's more focused around people than it is just how do we become more lean, lean? Isn't the discussion anymore. It's how do we get people to come and work for us? And, and I think that's how we've seen a lot more solutions successfully implemented is be by ad adapting to attract these new workforce.

Chris Krnezich (14:34):
Yeah. That's, that's an extremely, I would say unique perspective. You'd think that it'd be from the continuous improvement department or something like that. But I guess in your way, it's like this, person's asking, how do I get rid of that perennial we're hiring sign out front.

Jake Hall (14:48):
Yeah. And, and it, and it is, I mean, it's definitely continuous. It goes all the way up to the maintenance engineers and the technicians, but it goes back to the idea of how do we successfully implement digital transformation and technology. It's a culture change. It's not a product change. I can, I can create an app that will give you every single bit of information on a machine. But if you don't act on that, all those bits of information, if you don't act on the status of a machine, it means nothing to you. So how do you culturally change the way people do business is how you create change in a company. And, and I think that's the reason why we've seen so many industry 4.0 initiatives fail is because the technology's there, but the culture isn't there. So how do you better implement solutions? And going back to your, your question, Chris is you go to the people who are going to be making those changes and communicate the purpose of why those changes are important.

Chris Krnezich (15:49):
Oh, 100%. So, based on your experience, who wins as a result of this auto automation and digitization, is it like the big fortune 500 companies? Is it small companies? Is it everybody? What have you seen?

Jake Hall (16:03):
I mean, the answer is both. I think the answer is everyone, but when you look at the numbers smart to medium size businesses, SMEs, whatever, you know, acronym you want to use. 98% of those companies are under five. In the us are under 500 employees. 70 some percent are under 50 employees. So majority of businesses are not large manufacturers, they're small manufacturers. And when you're a small manufacturer, you might not have the resources from a full controls engineer from a full system to, to have a full team behind you. So you need to leverage technology in a way that's gonna have a great impact from a small amount of work. So, I mean, a small to medium size manufacturer is gonna have a lot harder job recruiting a workforce than a larger, because they don't have the resources to invest in it. A lot of times, those small to medium size manufacturers are trying to hire labor locally and workers locally, where versus a larger manufacturer could have the resources to, to recruit globally or, you know, within the us.

Jake Hall (17:11):
So enabling new technology is going to make you more attractive to your local community and it's gonna make it so more people are gonna wanna work with you because you're moving from that dark, dirty, dangerous environment to a technology enabled environment. So while large fortune 1000 companies are gonna be successful and the, all those, I bet you, every single fortune 1000 company has a team built around digital transformation and smart manufacturing industry, 4.0 initiatives. That's wonderful and they're rolling them out and they need to be, and they need to roll them out to be successful. But every small machine builder as well needs to leverage this technology in a way it's like the same reason why I would say collaborative robots have made such an impact, you know, was I was on a conversation earlier with universal robots today and they sold 50,000 robots. They, they reached a milestone of 2020, so 50,000 robots. And I think one, one reason why mobile, why collaborative robots have made such an impact is because it's made automation attractive to a lot of first time users. And if you can leverage a technology that's familiar to someone already, or that they view as a much lower risk they're gonna do a lot more job possibly successfully integrating it than they would a much more complex, larger solution.

Chris Krnezich (18:40):
Absolutely. I think that's one of the barriers that we see is some of the comp some of the smaller companies are like, oh, this is a great tool for a big global company. This isn't for us. So, so how do you shift that mindset for somebody like that to know that like, Hey, this is a tool that everybody can utilize.

Jake Hall (18:56):
Yeah. I mean, shifting the mindset, I think is the idea of reducing the risk. How could, how could we mitigate risk from an end user to buy into a solution? And I think if we can go out there and saying, listen, you don't have the large upfront capital cost. That was once there. You have the ability to invest in something and create an ROI justification beyond just how much, how many hours are we saving doing this. It's also, how are you enabling technology? That's gonna attract a future workforce. How are you enabling technology in a way? That's gonna keep you in business for longer. I, I, I think that's the different approach that we're seeing.

Chris Krnezich (19:39):
Awesome. So there've been some concerns about how technology may reduce jobs as somebody who's trying to appeal to a younger generation, take these jobs that they wouldn't normally want to take or get an industry that they didn't want to be in. H how do you get somebody like that to understand the role of technology in our workforce?

Jake Hall (19:58):
Yeah, I mean, great, great question. The state of manufacturing is we're gonna have 2.2 million unfulfilled jobs in us manufacturing by 2030. There's plenty of jobs available for people. It's the fact is no one wants to do those jobs. Yet people still wanna buy products and consume things. So automation and technology is not something that's taking jobs away. It's simply doing tasks that no one else wants to do. No one wants to lift 30 pound boxes and build a pallet eight hours a day. And that's all they're doing is simply stacking boxes off of a conveyor, building a pallet manually going around and, and wrapping it with wrap, and then moving it away with a cart to do that. No one wants to do that job. There's no purpose. There's nothing in that job that screams, wow, I'm content with what I'm doing as this thoughtless task.

Jake Hall (21:01):
We're enabling technology in a way. That's gonna allow people to leverage solutions and say, you know, I'm gonna now be responsible for a cell and be trained to run the cell that has a robot to be trained. This cell that has this automation AMR, that's gonna go around, lift up this pallet Jack, after it was boxed and drop it off at a automated wrapper, and then pick it back up again and drive it to my shipping location. We're enabling technology in a way that's in, that's going to make the workers' life easier. And a lot of times what we're seeing with technology is it's not even a, I'm gonna implement technology. That's gonna replace a worker. I'm gonna implement technology. That's gonna keep a worker working for me. I think that's one of the biggest issues is because we're having so much turnover in our industry. And retention is such a difficult thing. You need technology simply just to keep the workers there, not technology to even replace the worker.

Chris Krnezich (21:58):
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's more repurposing that worker in a way where their job doesn't suck as much. <Laugh>

Jake Hall (22:05):
Yeah, exactly.

Chris Krnezich (22:06):
Agree what it comes down to a really hot topic lately with all the supply chain issues and you see it whenever you go to any store, this is outta stock. This won't be an Intel next week is reassuring. In your opinion, how can companies looking to do this, bring those jobs back to north America, how do they remain competitive in doing that? Cuz there's obviously a difference in labor cost.

Jake Hall (22:29):
Yeah. the, the difference in labor cost is actually dramatically dropped. I think 1980, it was the 30 to one ratio of Chinese labor cost to us. Now it's the three to one ratio. So there's been a, and, and don't quote me, it's, it's some, it's some factor in there, but labor has dramatically reduced in terms of the, the spread between overseas manufacturing costs in us manufacturing costs. And I think the one thing that counters that now is you can get product manufactured for cheaper somewhere else, but can you even get the product then? And I think that's what we're seeing right now with the supply chain is a study done by Deloitte this year for their state of manufacturing address for 20 22, 1 of their five key points was the redistribution and reprocessing of the supply chain with domestic manufacturing and more manufacturers are gonna be bringing their suppliers locally into the process to reduce the risk that we're seeing here.

Jake Hall (23:39):
And yeah. Is, is it maybe a little bit cheaper? Yeah. But if you can't make parts you're losing out anyway it doesn't matter if your component was 30 cents cheaper to make overseas than it was here. You don't have components now cuz you can't get 'em off of a boat. That's been sitting in a, you know, the, the, the bay for the past two months to be unloaded. So I, I know that's, I know that's a general answer, but I think what we're seeing now is as more companies globally are adapting automation, it's, automation's gonna allow small to medium size manufacturers here locally. Like I said, those manufacturers are 50 deploys and under to stay competitive through automation to then supply local manufacturing. And I think local and larger manufacturers wanna see that local solution as well because they have a lot more control over getting access to that.

Chris Krnezich (24:34):
Yeah. Great. Do you think digitization is still a choice for companies in manufacturing today? Can you get away without implementing these solutions to help optimize workflow and productivity?

Jake Hall (24:46):
Oh yeah. You can get away with it doesn't mean you're gonna be around in 10 years. <Laugh> I mean that, that's my some answer. I mean, I mean, being in business is a choice. Digitizing your future processes is a choice is just, do you want to be in business in 10 years? It's it it's it's up to you and you know, it, it's one of those things where I don't, I think honestly, if companies don't have a digital transformation strategy of how they're going to successfully implement new technology, enter the manufacturing workforce, they're gonna have massive issues. And I could tell you right now, labor is not gonna become a resource that becomes more available. Technology of implementing solutions is not gonna become cheaper in a lot of cases. I mean, if you are a machine builder right now and you're trying to buy an automation system, you're 12 months out go to pre 2019.

Jake Hall (25:41):
You could have been six months out at 30%, the cost automation E everyone's automating now. And I, I think the longer you wait to automate and implement new technology and solutions, it's an exponential curve that you're gonna be left behind on. And the companies, the companies that were were better automated leading into the pandemic felt less of a, a bump than the companies who had a bunch of manual processes with a bunch of people, all working together, not automating systems. And then when, when a person in the line got COVID or got sick, that they lost a third of their workforce versus a company that says, you know what, we're gonna space things out. We're gonna leverage more on automation and then make that happen. Yeah. Digitalizations a choice. So is being in business.

Chris Krnezich (26:36):
Yeah, absolutely. I think you touched on something huge there and like you saw the horror stories that beat the pandemic. Oh, this food supplier 300 people caught COVID within a week. They had to shut down for two weeks. Like that's a huge impact to their business. Are there any particular companies or industries that stick out to you as digital transformation leaders, those who set the bar high for the rest?

Jake Hall (26:56):
Yeah. I mean, I think we saw the, the automotive industry as the, you know, they've been always a lot of times the early adapters of stuff. And the one thing that we're facing though with automotive industry is a lot of those facilities and sites are brownfield. So they've been around for a long time. So they have a harder time changing the processes that they have internally. I think what we're are seeing a lot of adaption to new technology and, and automation is the warehouse and logistics industry. As more and more companies are leveraging technology that enables a worker to get the most out of a worker. We're seeing more device wearables, we're seeing more digital work instructions and access to information. In their hand, we're seeing more robots working alongside humans in those industries because they need to value that worker to be as most efficient as possible. And to keep them around, especially with the way the eCommerce industry is growing. So I would say some companies that are doing very successful, if anybody go online and look at videos, you can say, holy cow, that worker has technology all around them. That's making them more efficient.

Chris Krnezich (28:04):
Yeah, absolutely. Really introducing technology into a really non-technical space to start.

Jake Hall (28:10):
Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Krnezich (28:11):
Well, that's awesome. I know at the beginning of this episode, you mentioned you hit a major milestone recently. When did your audience really surprise you where you got some unexpected feedback or engagement when you were first starting out in this space?

Jake Hall (28:25):
You know, I think the first, I, I, I guess you could say when my, I knew my audience was growing is when I was sitting in an airport and someone randomly came up to me and said, Hey, you're Jake hall. You're that manufacturer millennial guy or another time I was shopping with my daughter at Meyer. And <laugh> the person who walked up to me. So, I mean, it's, it's one of those things where it's, it's, it's been very fun to be a an advocate to the industry. But I think it's one of those things where I encourage everyone to be an advocate for our industry. If we wanna grow manufacturing we need to work on it together. We need to work locally with our universities and maybe this is another topic we can set up for, for the next conversation, Chris, of how do we better enable and excite our local communities to leverage new technology.

Chris Krnezich (29:13):
Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, it's crazy. When you see that the world is really small in that sense. So I know we only have about 30 minutes per episode, but there's so much more that we could talk about. So we'll definitely have to do this again. Zoom, Jake. Maybe last question here from our side, before we wrap this up, where can people find you online? Where can we follow you?

Jake Hall (29:34):
Yeah, absolutely. I would encourage you to connect with me on LinkedIn. That's the first place. So if you were to search the manufacturing millennial or Jake hall, find me on LinkedIn. I'm on also on all social media channel. So that's MFG millennial on TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, you know, follow me on social media. I I'm always out there sharing interesting thoughts and advocating the manufacturing automation industry. So I would encourage you that way. Otherwise you can reach me at Jake at the manufacturing, millennial.com or visit my website, the manufacturing, millennial.com.

Chris Krnezich (30:08):
Alrighty, last question. Before you wrap up, where can somebody get a manufacturing millennial Lego?

Jake Hall (30:14):
Oh man come to a trade show, you know, or a manufacturing conference. That's, that's where it's at. So I'm gonna be and automate in a couple weeks. I'm gonna be at IMTS Fabtech a bunch of shows. So if you wanna learn more, just follow me on LinkedIn. You'll know where I'm gonna be at the next show.

Chris Krnezich (30:33):
That was maybe a more personal question, but yeah, I definitely look forward to meeting you in person there. Well I think we're ready to wrap this up. Thanks again, Jake. It's been great having you on the show and a big thank you to all of our listeners who turned tuned into this episode. We'll be airing a new episode of digitization Mavericks every week. So we hope to see you weekly. Thanks again, Jake.

Jake Hall (30:52):
Thanks Chris. Appreciate it.

Luke West (30:56):
The digitization Maverick podcast is powered by Weever, a platform that automates every critical process. So you and your employees can focus on delivering value. Use digital data, capture, workflow management and realtime reporting tools to dramatically improve operational efficiency and employee engagement. Visit Weever apps.com to see why so many of the world's manufactured leaders like Kellogg's and Unilever. Use Weever to optimize standard operating procedures.

Chris Krnezich (31:20):
Hey, this is your host, Chris. Again, I have two quick asks for all my listeners to help the show grow one. If you got value from this episode, please subscribe to the podcast on apple or Spotify and leave a review, letting us know why two, if you are interested in appearing on the show or making a guest suggestion, please email podcast@goweever.com. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks and see you next time.